Eugene Robinson has a really good muse on the Iraq war in todays column…It starts with this:
Eugene Robinson – 4,000 Dead for What? – washingtonpost.com
When U.S. military deaths in Iraq hit a round number, as happened Sunday, there’s usually a week or so of intense focus on the war — its bogus rationale, its nebulous aims, its awful consequences for the families of the dead. Not likely this time, though. The nation is too busy worrying about more acute crises, some of them real — the moribund housing market, the teetering financial system, the flagging economy — and some of them manufactured, such as the shocking revelation that race can still be a divisive issue in American society.
Go read the rest at the Washington Post.
I found myself watching “Bush’s War” last evening on PBS at least for a while…While it looked like acurate reporting of what transpired, I couldn’t watch the entire hour. It is really sad looking back on what the last eight mistaken years have wrought in this country. Where the hell were our minds when we let the Supreme Court choose a President?
I watched “Bush’s War” last evening, and I kept laughing at that title. They should have called it, “If We Did Nothing, Then The Terrorists Win War”. The show revealed to me that a “clear, secure, and hold” policy was working in Iraq. Thoughts?
I had to roll my eyes at the 4,000 headlines. In terms of policy, what is the difference between 3,750 and 4,000? None. This conflict has resulted in such a small loss of American lives and treasure relative to our past conflicts leading me to conclude that the media and liberals play games with human lives.
Well, to keep things short, just call me a liberal. I know for everyone on the right, that’s used as a four letter word.
You seem to not understand the difference between the war on terror launched in Afghanistan and the “Bush’s War” in Iraq. I have no problem with fighting the terrorists who planned the attacks on America…I have a big problem with the invasion of Iraq. No matter how bad Saddam was, he was the the man America kept in power until we couldn’t control him any longer.
To my way of thinking the terrorists have won…We can no longer fly without numerous searches and inconsistent “security” measures.
My rights under the constitution have been curtailed at the whim of a President and an administration that has no regard for the law. I can no longer assume that I can call my family without the government listening in.
This country as a policy, condones torture.
You roll your eyes at the 4,ooo headlines…Are you for real? The 4,000 is the tip of the iceberg. Like all icebergs 90% of the real cost in lives is out of sight. Iraqi civilians, maimed and wounded soldiers and civilians on all sides.
The only ones playing games with human lives is the current administration. George Bush will have the legacy he deserves…It’s a lot like the legacy he left in the private sector before he decided to run the country into the ground.
I can hardly wait for your reply…
The security of airports is a major pain in the rump. So, we agree there. But 9/11 occurred before we invaded Iraq, so security would have been implemented regardless.
After that, I think differently regarding what’s really important. I don’t lose any sleep over the so-called Constitutional changes you’ve cited. Something tells me that our calls do not fit the profile that homeland security is tracking. In fact, I feel safer knowing security can get around inflexible outdated rules when the need arises.
Torture? Let’s see….the enemy will behead you just for being American, but we will make the enemy feel temporarily uncomfortable for valuable info. We are so mean.
Why do you think we went to Iraq? Following bad info or because of oil or what?
How many attacks have been made on America since 9/11? Zero. And you know the terrorist have never been so discouraged as with an American government so consistent in taking the fight to them as opposed to letting them bring it here.
And if 4,000 is the tip, then why didn’t the media discuss the rest of “iceburg” you mentioned? Because it was a nice round number that they could throw out there for political purposes, not because they care.
I’m really interested to see what happens in Basra. Let’s see if Sadr can fall in line. Personally, I hope we get rid of him if he betrays us on the cease-fire. It might be best if this comes to a head before troop reductions.
Jim, your question about why I think we went to Iraq leads me to just one answer…The one you don’t want to hear…The Bush Administration. Since they pushed us into Iraq, the reasons they themselves have given for us going into Iraq has changed…over and over again.
I cannot answer the question for myself because the people who made the decision haven’t answered it to my (or most other Americans) satisfaction.
As far as attacks against America go, it was about 10 years from the first to the second overt attack on American soil…In the same place. So your argument about taking the fight to the terrorists leaves a lot to the imagination, especially since there were no known terrorists in Iraq in 2002 other than the ones backed by the American Government originally.
Writing off torture as being okay because the the other guy does even worse is pretty juvenile. “He hit me first”, is not an excuse grownups generally use. Personally, I hold my government to a higher standard than I hold terrorists…Thank God they usually, at least in the past, lived up to that high standard. But redefining what the world considers torture is not what I want my Government spending my resources on.
Discounting the number of dead and wounded by claiming the press hasn’t covered it or doesn’t care…Come on, change the channel. There is enough coverage out there on the MSM to give you some idea of the numbers even if Fox doesn’t cover the story…
But I guess it’s your final paragraph Jim that says it all…”I hope we get rid of him if he betrays us on the cease-fire.” Here we are, once again, bringing democracy to the natives just as long as they agree with us on how it will be implemented. The one lesson we never seem to learn is that democracy is messy, particularly for those trying to control it.
Have a great day guy…
I know…the Bush administration is the devil. Surely we can trust a good man like Chavez…
Terrorists were in Iraq in 2002, they worked for Saddam and killed hundreds of thousands. Where’s the outcry of compassion for those that suffered following the unfinished job of the Gulf War?
I think our past conflicts were concerned with making the necessary sacrifice to succeed rather than chasing the enigmatic moral high ground. I expect a government that will do what is necessary.
Sadr was compelled to stop his militia from suffering a worse fate. The media likes to portray it as a failure of Maliki’s policy. Lesson: Don’t trust the media.
Of course, this is simply my own opinion.
Maybe I missed something in our back and forth…
Personally I don’t ever intend to raise the Bush administration to the height of a demi-god, even a fallen one. But I am at a loss as to why Hugo has entered our conversation. Unless, that is, you are trying to make my point about democracy’s being messy and not always what you had hoped for…
Without doing any research, your statement seems to have condensed the history of 30 years into one point in time. Then you equate that point in time and the 30 years of history into a statement about the outcome of a military campaign 12 years earlier. I think if you go back through the accounts in the press (US and World) you will discover that there was a compassionate outcry at the time. But the “terrorists” you are talking about were members of the legal government of Iraq. A government we (the USA) helped to keep in power for a very long time.
I personally didn’t agree with our position than any more than I agree with our position now. As for the “unfinished job”, it seems to me the first President Bush did exactly as much of the job as he was authorized to do by both the US and the Worlds governments.
When it comes to governments, I expect and demand a government that follows the rule of law, starting with the constitution. There was, and is a reason for the separation of powers in our constitution. We now know what happens when the Judicial Branch appoints the Executive Branch and the Legislative Brach rubber stamps everything the Executive does in return for the Executive rubber stamping all of the pork passed by the Legislative…Not quite what the founding fathers had in mind, or so I think.
Seems to me from our “conversation”, that the only constant I can tale away is your distrust of the media. I have to agree to a certain extent. From what I have seen the more consolidation we get in media ownership, the less open they are to reporting anything that might put the owners in an unfavorable light. We always had that, but when every town in the country had local media ownership someone was always trying to point out what their rivals were doing against the “public good”.
Anyway, it’s always good to here someone’s opinion…